Topic-icon Search for the roots of the family Nicia, settlers in colony Węglowice

4 miesiąc 3 dni temu #38551 przez Antonius Nicia
Dear all, until recently the only information that I had on my ancestors in Węglowice was a document WYCIĄG z ksiąg ludności stałej – powiatu Częstochowa – gminy Węglowice, dated 5 August 1940. A scan of the WYCIĄG I have attached.
My grandfather is Anton Nicia, born 9 January 1898 in Węglowice. Anton is the grandson of Winzenty Nicia (or should it be Nitz?). Due to several events in World War 2, my father finally had to settle in The Netherlands, which is my home country too.
Recently I read an interesting article with subsequent forum discussion on this platform.
The title is: KOLONIŚCI NIEMIECCY W WĘGLOWICE I PUSZCZEWIE
In the forum discussion on this article it was stated that in the marriage certificate of the parafii Truskolasy from 1845 the family name of Winzenty is written as Nitz. Is it for sure that our original family name is NITZ, or is it possible that it is an accidental error of the priest?
Also mentioned in the discussion was that Winzenty was the son of Kacper and Elżbieta from FREJWALDEN in Austria. However, I cannot find a place with such a name.
Another mystery is that according to the attached WYCIĄG z ksiąg ludności stałej the place of birth of Winzenty  is Traktdorf in the year 1821. AlsoTraktdorf I cannot find anywhere.
Any help on the above questions would be very much appreciated. Thank you in advance. Antonius Nicia.
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4 miesiąc 3 dni temu #38556 przez Rafał Molencki
Here is the marriage record of Oct 12,1845, parish of Truskolasy:
szukajwarchiwach.pl/8/118/0/2/102/skan/f...KLyCOd6pujH9sI6EXSLg
which says that Wincenty Nitz of Węglowice, bachelor, aged 22, son of late Kacper and still living Elżbieta married Joanna Pal, virgin, 21, daughter of late Józef and living Franciszka.
It also says that Wincenty was born in "Frejwaldem in the Austrian state", which I suspect was the town of Freiwaldau in the not so remote Austrian Silesia known today as Jesenik in the Czech Republic - Bohemia was under the Austrian Habsburg rule at the time. After the family settled in the then Russian-occupied part of Poland for good, the German (or perhaps Czech) name Nitz was adapted to the sound of the Polish language and became Nicia, as simple as that. Many foreign names were polonized and even translated in those days.
As for Traktdorf, this is definitely misspelling of ?Trachtdorf, ?Drachtdorf or something similar, probably somewhere near Freiwaldau/Jesenik. One would have to look for it on a 19th c. map.
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4 miesiąc 2 dni temu #38558 przez Jacek Tomczyk
Pierwsza żona Wincentego Joanna zmarła w 1867, w tym samym roku Wincenty pobrał się po raz drugi z Józefą Zejler. Nazwisko zapisano jako Nitz i to był ostatni zapis w tej formie. Ich dzieci zapisywano już jako Nicia.
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4 miesiąc 2 dni temu #38560 przez Antonius Nicia
Thank you so much for this information, as I now know for sure that our original family name is Nitz.
Combining your input and the provided data from the earlier forum discussion, with my attached WYCIĄG document, I come to the following:
Wincenty is born in 1823 in Freiwaldau/Jesinek (Austria) and married in 1845 Joanna Pal (born 1824). Joanna passed away in june 1867. She got with Wincenty 3 children: Antoni (1846), Ludwika (8 July 1856) and Theofil (25 February 1866). Wincenty marries 15 October 1867 for the second time, with Józefa Zejler (born 4 September 1851). Wincenty gets with Józefa another 7 children.
Is this a correct summary?
I would like to know too, when Wincenty as well as Józefa have passed away. Hopefully, someone can clarify this for me.
Best regards, Antonius Nicia

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4 miesiąc 2 dni temu - 4 miesiąc 2 dni temu #38561 przez Jacek Tomczyk
Wincenty zmarł w 1890 roku w Węglowicach akt nr 214. A akcie zgonu zapisano, że urodził się w Austrii. Miejscowości nie podano. To co napisałeś jest OK.  Zachowało się oświadczenie z 1845 złożono do aktu ślubu w którym pisze, że Wincenty nie może jechać po metrykę bo granice są zamknięte, więc dane o urodzeniu w Austrii poświadczają sąsiedzi z rodziny Weber.  To oświadczenie jest w Archiwum w Częstochowie. Pozdrawiam J.T.

P.S. Nazwisko drugiej żony zapisywano w różnych formach; Zejler, Zeler, Zeller.
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4 miesiąc 9 godzin temu #38564 przez Antonius Nicia
So good to know this, as I now understand why it was so difficult to find out the place of birth of Wincenty. It would be nice to have the statement of closed borders in 1845 and testimony of Weber family. Is it possible to get a scan or a link of it? For what reason where the borders closed at that time? By the way, when did Józefa Zejler passed away?
I guess my next project will be to find  Nitz ancestors in or around Freiwaldau/Jesenik. Does anyone has suggestions how or where to start or any useful links?
Teofil (25 February 1866) is the son of Wincenty and the father of my grandfather Anton. From old oral family information, which might be not too accurate, I was told that: Teofil was married 3 times and had 4 children. Only Antonina Weber (3 June 1867) is
known to me. The other 2 wifes are unknown as well as the date of the 3 marriages. The 4 children mentioned to me are: Piotr/Pietrik (1893), Marianna (?), Franciszek (1895), Anton (1898). Who is the mother of what child is not told to me, except
for Anton. Finally, it was said that Teofil became very old and passed away in 1961 at the age of 95.
Is it possible to complete and verify the above data, such that I have a full picture? I would be very grateful for that.
Regards, Antonius Nicia

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4 miesiąc 9 godzin temu #38565 przez J K R
Witam.

Wincenty miał z Joanną piątkę dzieci tj. dwóch synów Antoni i Teofil oraz trzy córki Marianna, Anna, Ludwika. Dwie córki zmarły Marianna w wieku 5 lat i Anna 2 lata. Wincenty zmarł 27.09.1990 r.

Z drugą żoną Józefą/Józefiną miał dziewięć dzieci - Józef, Piotr, Gustaw, Jan, Marianna, Walenty, Walentyna, Stanisław i Józefa tj. 6 synów i 3 córki ale małżeństwo miało miejsce w Węglowicach akt 51 dnia 1867-10-21.
Skoro jesteś Antoniego wnukiem to jego ojcem był Teofil a więc Antoniego rodzoną babką była Pall Joanna.

Dnia 18.01.1992 r. Józefa Zeiler/Nicia wychodzi ponownie za mąż za Jana Labochę lat 26, z tego związku urodziła się w 1893 córka Petronela. 

Pozdrawiam JKR.
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3 miesiąc 3 tygodni temu #38582 przez Antonius Nicia
Thanks to this platform I got a lot of new data on my ancestors. A big question mark remains
for me: Why did Wincenty move about 160 km from Freiwaldau to Węglowice, quite
a distance in those days. Kolonia Węglowice was founded 1798-1805, which is
much earlier than Wincenty arrived. Question: Is the exact date of his
settlement in Węglowice known? I don’t think that after 1805 there was any
active recruitment of settlers for Węglowice.
Our oral family history tells that Wincenty came to Węglowice together with his two brothers
August and Teofil. Are these two brothers also registered in the parish of Truskolasy?

Regards, Antonius Nicia

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3 miesiąc 3 tygodni temu - 3 miesiąc 3 tygodni temu #38583 przez Rafał Molencki
First of all, Freiwaldau (now Jesenik in the Czech Republic) was only my guess. You'd have to find the vital records from there to make sure whether the name Nitz appears in them. If not, there may have been some other places with a similar name elsewhere in Bohemia, Moravia, Austrian Silesia, Polish West Galicia (less likely) or indeed Austria itself.

The vital records  from the parish of Truskolasy from 1808 onwards are available online at:

szukajwarchiwach.pl/8/118/0/2#tabJednostki

At the end of each year there is an alphabetical list of those baptised, married and buried, so you'll have to go through them to find all the Nitzs and Nicias.

A random hit of the alphabetical list of marriages in 1861

szukajwarchiwach.pl/8/118/0/2/134/skan/f...lqShldRi6Vrbmqjf5now

gave me the marriage of Józef Nitz and Marianna Głąb of Węglowice, which is marriage record No.3:

szukajwarchiwach.pl/8/118/0/2/134/skan/f...43WREoNI_tSM_i-Sn1MA

which says that 18-year old Józef Nitz was the son of Józef and Karolina Szajer

You have to go through these records carefully yourself. If you should find anything and need translating, let us know./ The things will be easier and quicker if you use our searcher. Here are Nitz marriages:

www.genealodzy.czestochowa.pl/indeksy-me..._indeksy&task=search

The first Nitz to get married in Truskolasy was Józef, Wincenty's brother, in 1839, who married Karolina Szajer.
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3 miesiąc 3 tygodni temu #38612 przez Antonius Nicia
The explanation of the database and search engine was very helpful. Thank you for that!
By using these, I found two burial records of, what I guess, are the parents of Wincenty (is my guess correct?):
1838 –Truskolasy / Węglowice akt nr 172 – Kasper Nitz
1848 – Truskolasy/ Węglowice akt nr 557 – Elżbieta Nitz
Is it possible to get a translation in English of both records?
From thedatabase I deducted that Wincenty’s son Teofil and Antonina Weber had 4 children: Piotr (1893), Franciszek (1895), Antoni (1898), Marianna (1899). With his second wife Józefa Weber (1878) he had one daughter: Franciszka (1901). I could not find the marriage record of Teofil and Józefa. With his third wife Katarzyna Gruca he had one son: Józef (1904). Also the marriage record with his third wife I could not find.
Is it correct that Teofil’s first wife Antonina passed away in 1902? (1902 – Truskolasy/ Węglowice akt nr 8 – Antonina Nicia)
Regards, Antonius Nicia

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3 miesiąc 3 tygodni temu - 3 miesiąc 3 tygodni temu #38622 przez Rafał Molencki
All these records are written according to the standard template:

It happened in [PARISH] on [DATE spelled out in full, not in numbers to avoid errors] at [TIME]. Two witnesses turned up [usually the closest neighbours and/or family members ] and announced [lit. declared] that on [DAY, TIME] died [the deceased person] aged X, living in [PLACE]  and born in [PLACE] + info about the widowed spouse, sometimes also about the children. The final formula signed by the priest: "After I was convinced of the death of XX, I read out loud the record to the witnesses [usually illiterate at the time] and signed it [if the witnesses knew how to write, they also signed the record at the bottom]

In the case of Kacper:  1 Oct 1838 11am. Franciszek Serboszek, 21, the innkeeper from Truskolasy and the son-in-law of the deceased and Jan ?Palo, 47, farmer from Węglowice appeared and said that at 5am on 29 Sept died Kacper Nitz aged 79, a colonist living and born at Węglowice and left behind his wife Elżbieta and his children at Węglowice.

Elżbieta - Józef Nitz, 30 and Jakub Werber, 46 both farmers of Węglowice said that on 19 Aug 1848 at 12 noon died Elżbieta Nitz, widow aged 62, living at her son's place and leaving behind two sons: Józef and Wincenty and two daughters: Marianna and Teresa

One of the repressive measures imposed by the Russians after the January Uprising was making priests keep parish records in Russian only from spring 1868 onwards (until 1915), so Antonina Nicia's death record of 1902 is in Russian. It is record 3 (not 8). She died at Węglowice at 11pm on 3 Jan 1902 at the age of 35. Antonina was the daughter of Karol Weber, the farmer, and late Józefa born Pluta. She left behind her widower Teofil Nicia. Record 4 below says that their 5-day old daughter Franciszka died an hour later (at midnight), which means that it must have been a difficult childbirth. The sad news is announced by the father, Teofil, 37  and  Jan Szleper, 40, both farmers.

And now I looked at Teofil's wives. Exactly a month after Antonina's death on 3 Feb 1902 Teofil married Anna Maj, a virgin or spinster aged 41, from Puszczew: szukajwarchiwach.pl/8/118/0/2/208/skan/f...dXuFuNGkNF4xCDL_gYUw

And there was another Teofil Nicia, son of Jan and Karolina Głomb who at the age of 20 married Katarzyna Bryła, aged 19 from Bór Zapilski: szukajwarchiwach.pl/8/118/0/2/201/skan/f...EmVZJe1Avb-x0NK9Fg2w
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3 miesiąc 2 tygodni temu #38673 przez Antonius Nicia
The translations of the death records unvealed a lot of interesting information and … created a big question mark.
Calculating backwards, Kacper must been born in 1759. In his death record it is stated that he is living and born in Węglowice. This seems in contradiction with the fact that his children are born in Austria.
Did the registrator made an error in the record, or is there an other explanation?
Regards, Antonius Nicia

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3 miesiąc 2 tygodni temu #38675 przez Jacek Tomczyk

jacek (Jacek Tomczyk) napisał: Tak to błąd zapisującego (albo rodziny która zgłaszała zgon), jak wcześniej pisałem przy ślubie złożono oświadczenie  o miejscu urodzenia jego syna.. Czy wiesz, że jeszcze dziś mieszkają w Węglowicach i Długim Kącie osoby o nazwisku NIcia?

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3 miesiąc 2 tygodni temu #38682 przez J K R
Panie Jacku o tym nazwisku są mieszkańcy miejscowości Puszczew, Czarna Wieś, Jezioro, Bór Zapilski, Bieżeń, Wręczyca Wielka tak , że jest to dość duża społeczność gm. Wręczyca Wielka.

Pozdrawiam JKR.
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3 miesiąc 2 tygodni temu #38688 przez Rafał Molencki
Yes, that is correct. Kacper must have come from somewhere in the Austrian Empire and the priest or the organist who took down the record mistakenly wrote that he was born at Węglowice and/or may have been misled by the family members who brought the news to him. Very often the actual record was written in the church book weeks or even months after the event, so the priest may simply have forgotten what had been told him on the day of death.
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3 miesiąc 2 tygodni temu #38720 przez Antonius Nicia
Good to know that the record of Kacper is incorrect with respect to his place of birth. It prevents me searching for ancestors in the wrong direction.
Also thank you for the hint that in Węglowice and Długi Kąt still some Nicia’s live. In 2004 I visited those locations in order to find out more of the family history. I did speak with Stanisław Nicia (1920), Długi Kąt 31 (Line: Wincenty – Teofil – Franciszek – Stanisław) and ZygmuntTukaj, Bór Zapilski 38 (Line: Wincenty – Teofil – Franciszek – Gertruda).
I can share with this forum what I was told, although I know that many inaccuracies exist.
Wincenty was a charcoal producer. Exactly in the way as described in the 2 articles of mr. Szleper and mrs. Hoinkis.
Around 1865 he travelled with his 2 brothers (?) around by train to look for a proper forest location for producing charcoal. In
1865 new forest locations became available in Węglowice. A memory stone, close to the entrance of a cemetry in Węglowice should display such. Around 1900 the area became deforested and charcoal was not needed anymore as it was replaced by coal.
At that time Węglowice became a cross-point of coal transports. Our Nicia’s then made a living by collecting and selling coal bricks that did fall from the wagons. Later on they became traders in coal.
Another general activity in the area was smuggling, because of the vincinity of the german border. Goods were bought in so called 50-pfennig shops, smuggled into Poland and sold with profit.
In the nineteenth century all Nicia’s lived closely together in the vincinity of the gymnasium in Węglowice. Wincenty has lived for some time in Bór Zapilski nr. 52. His son Teofil lived in Bór Zapilski nr. 51, where my grandfather Antoni was born.
Antoni joined the army in 1917 to fight against the russians. The promise was that those soldiers were rewarded with a piece of land. This promise was never fulfilled. Around 1920 Antoni moved to Sucha Góra, currently a suburb of Bytom, in order to take a job as miner in the coal mine “Bytomka”. He spoke polish, german and of course the selesian dialect. Until his death in 1974 he lived in Sucha Góra.
So far, what I was told of the Węglowice-time of my Nicia-line.
Regards, Antonius Nicia

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3 miesiąc 2 tygodni temu - 3 miesiąc 2 tygodni temu #38721 przez Rafał Molencki
You probably mean Bytom Coalmine (Kopalnia Bytom or Beuthengrube), where coal was dug between 1923-1974. It was situated right on the pre-war border between Poland and Germany, on the German side. Sucha Góra (or Trockenberg) was a couple of kilometres away on the Polish side, so your Antoni had to cross the border every day to get to work. But that was nothing unusual in the Upper Silesia in those days. Also, if he joined the German army in 1917 it is not surprising that he didn't get the land. The borders were changed, the army lost the war so there was nobody to ask for the fulfilment of the promise...
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3 miesiąc 2 tygodni temu #38722 przez Antonius Nicia
 During german occupation 1939-1945 my father (Józef - 1925) had to fill in a questionnaire, amongst others what the job was of his father. In the attachment I have enclosed his handwritten answer. Before starting in the Bytom Coal mine Antoni worked a few years in a quarry, also near Sucha Góra. So, the opening of the mine in 1923 perfectly fits in his chronology.
Fantastic to get all this facts!!!
Regards, Antonius Nicia
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3 miesiąc 2 tygodni temu #38725 przez Rafał Molencki
It does say "Bytomka" indeed. Probably the miners referred to it in this diminutive form. The dolomite quarry in Sucha Góra functions no longer - it's been turned into a sports facility used in winter for skiing: pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolomity_Sportowa_Dolina .
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3 miesiąc 2 tygodni temu #38730 przez Antonius Nicia
By using the earlier given template of the records, I tried to decipher the records below. Apart from some individual words I was not succesfull. Therefore, I need again to ask for a favor for translating in english.
 
1832 – Truskolasy  akt nr 7 – Franciszek Serboszek (1817) x Marianna Nitz (Nitsche, Nidzia, Nicia)
1839 – Truskolasy / Węglowice akt nr81 – Józef Nitz (1818) x Karolina Szajer
1841 – Truskolasy / Węglowice akt nr8  Andrzej Kocher x Teresa Nitz
1876 – Truskolasy / Dłgi Kąt akt nr214 – Józefa Nicia
 
With these records I hope to narrow down the Nitz-search-area in Austria. The first three are the Kacper-children. The last one is a wild guess, as a Józefa Nicia was mentioned in a birth record out of 1816. Especially the first record could be interesting, as for Kacper’s son-in-law Franciszek Serboszek place of birth Rokitnitz was given (at least I thought it was that).
Regards, Antonius Nicia

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3 miesiąc 2 tygodni temu #38735 przez Rafał Molencki
All right, here we are:

23 Jan 1832 - marriage: Franciszek Serboszek, 23, bachelor, baker apprentice, born in the town of Rokitnica w Czechach [meaning in Czechia or Bohemia, my guess is that it could be modern Rokytnice nad Jizerou in northern Czechia; the name Serboszek suggests that the family was Czech and not German or Austrian], son of Józef and Teresa Serboszek, the innkeepers from Truskolasy [Teresa died two months later on 11 Mar 1832 and in her death record we learn that she was 53 and her maiden name was ?Piheryn?; Józef died in 1840]  + Maryanna, 20, working as a servant at Truskolasy, daughter of Kacper and [here mistakenly named as] Marianna Nitsche [something phonetically transitional between Nitz and Nicia], born at "Freywałde w Śląsku" [meaning in Silesia, which confirms my earlier idea that it is Freiwaldau, modern Jesenik, a town in this part of Silesia which in the 19th c. belonged to Austria]

3 Nov 1839 - marriage: Józef Nitz, 20, bachelor, farmer from Węglowice, born in "Frajwalde w Państwie Austryackim" [in the Austrian State], son of late Kacper and [still living] Elżbieta + Karolina Szajer, 22, daughter of Jan and Karolina, born at Węglowice

24 Jan 1841 - marriage: Andrzej Koch, 20, farmer from Kolonia Puszczew, son of Andrzej and Franciszka + Teresa Nitz, 18, born "w państwie Austriackim" [in the Austrian State, no name of town], daughter of late Kacper and Elżbieta, "osadników" [settlers] from Węglowice], staying with her mother

[record in Russsian] 22 Sep 1876 10 am death of Józefa Nicia aged 20, born at Węglowice, daughter of Józef Nicia and Marianna Głąb or Głomb
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3 miesiąc 2 tygodni temu #38739 przez J K R
Panie Rafale Józefa gdy zmarła nie miała 20 lat a trochę mniej bo lat 12, urodziła się w 1864 roku.

Pozdrawiam JKR.
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3 miesiąc 2 tygodni temu #38740 przez Rafał Molencki
Dzięki za czujność, było już trochę późno, gdy tłumaczyłem z rosyjskiego na angielski. Jest jak byk "dwienadcati liet ot rodu" a nie "dwadcati". Józefa was twelve when she died, not twenty.

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3 miesiąc 2 tygodni temu #38753 przez Antonius Nicia
Again many thanks for all translations. The mentioned places of birth of the children of Kacper narrow down the search area to former Austrian Selesia. The results are spelled similarly as Freywalde / Frajwalde / Fréjwaldem. My document “WYCIĄG z
ksiąg ludności stałej – powiatu Częstochowa – gminy Węglowice” that I attached by opening this thread is dated 5th august 1940. At that time Austrian Selesia was part of Reichsgau Sudetenland and subdivided in about 15 Landkreisen. For every Landkreis a detailed listing, down to the smallest settlement is given. I went through all of them, for finding a place with similarity of Traktdorf, as mentioned in the above EXTRACT. Only one candidate popped up: Trckadorf (in Landkreis Grulich), currently named Trčkov.  In the vincinity (25 km), currently just within the Polish border, I find the place Freiwalde (now: Lesica). Furthermore, at a distance of 20 km of Trčkov lies Rokitnitz (now: Rokytnice v Orlických horách). For this reason I was interested in the marriage record of Franciszek Serboszek. Is it possible that this Rokitnitz is his birth place and that the families Serboszek and Nitz knew each other before settling in Węglowice?
I did investigate the region Rokitnitz before as my father, when he became 18, he was ordered to go in 1943 to Rokitnitz to join the German Army, as Antoni’s family was ear marked as Volksdeutsche (DVL III).
By the way, the next best phonetic match in Austrian Selesia is Tanndorf (now: Jedlová v Orlických horách) just 10 km from Trčkov. To my opinion unlikely to be meant by Tracktdorf.
 
How is your judgement of the likelihood that Tracktdorf as mentioned in my EXTRACT, corresponds with Trckadorf / Trčkov. Secondly, could Freiwalde / Lesica be the place given in the Truskolay marriage records?
Regards,Antonius Nicia

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3 miesiąc 2 tygodni temu #38755 przez Jacek Tomczyk

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